Celebrating Her Recovery from Eating Disorders Using Intuitive Eating

CW: as the title implies, this episode describes a guest’s lifelong struggle with eating disorders

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Is Recovery from Eating Disorders Using Intuitive Eating Possible?

In this episode I chat with Debbie Lesko, an anti-diet and eating disorder awareness activist, who shares her personal journey of recovery from an eating disorder and how she became an advocate for body positivity and intuitive eating. She emphasizes the importance of rejecting diet culture and the harmful effects of intentional weight loss. Debbie also discusses the benefits of embracing an anti-diet mindset, such as freedom from food restrictions, improved self-esteem, and a healthier relationship with your body. She provides practical tips for transitioning away from dieting, including changing language around food, cleaning up social media feeds, and finding joyful movement.

Key Takeaways:

1. Reject diet culture and the labeling of food as “good” or “bad.”
2. Clean up your social media by unfollowing accounts that promote dieting or weight loss.
3. Get rid of clothes that don’t fit and buy clothes that make you feel comfortable and confident in your current body.

Quotes:

• “Anti-diet means rejecting the idea that a diet is going to cure your self-esteem, your body image, your health.”
• “All food has nutritional value, no matter what it is, and your body knows what to do with it.”
• “Give up the fight for making your body a shape that you think is acceptable.”

Resources Mentioned:

• National Eating Disorder Association
• Health at Every Size (Amazon Affiiate link)
• Intuitive Eating (Amazon Affiliate Link)

Need help?

Looking to speak with someone about eating disorders concerns for yourself or a loved one?

• ANAD Helpline: 1 (888) 375-7767    Monday-Friday, 9am-9pm CT
• National Alliance for Eating Disorders Helpline: 1 (866) 662-1235     Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm ET

About Debbie: 

Debbie Lesko is a 67-year-old grandmother and an eating disorder awareness and anti-diet fat liberation activist. She has been on a journey of recovery from her own eating disorder since she was eight years old. Debbie is the host of the “Diets Don’t Work” Facebook page, which is a community that supports and educates people looking to ditch the diet mindset and approach health without a harmful focus on weight.

Connect with Debbie Diets Don’t Work Facebook pageDiets Don’t Work Facebook groupDebbie’s Website: Diets-dont-work.net

In a world obsessed with weight loss and diet culture, it can be challenging to find a path to true health and well-being. But there is hope. Debbie Lesko, an anti-diet activist and eating disorder awareness advocate, is on a mission to help others break free from the harmful cycle of dieting and embrace a new way of approaching health. In our conversation, Debbie shares her personal journey to recovery and offers valuable insights into the benefits of ditching the diet mindset.

Finding Recovery: A Personal Journey

Debbie’s story is one of resilience and determination. From a young age, she was subjected to the harmful messages of diet culture, constantly being told that she needed to lose weight to be accepted and valued. This led to a lifelong battle with an eating disorder, with multiple hospitalizations and treatment centers along the way. But it wasn’t until 2017, when her job threatened her employment if she didn’t seek treatment, that Debbie realized she needed to make a change.

“I can’t leave my granddaughter,” Debbie recalls. “I can’t die. That would just hurt tremendously.” This realization became the turning point in her recovery journey. She sought treatment at Rosewood Eating Disorder Centers and immersed herself in various modalities, including intuitive eating and the Health at Every Size (HAES) approach. Through this process, Debbie discovered a new way of approaching food, movement, and self-acceptance.

The Anti-Diet Movement: Rejecting Diet Culture

Being anti-diet means rejecting the harmful messages of diet culture and embracing a new approach to health and well-being. It means letting go of the idea that weight loss is the key to happiness and self-worth. As Debbie explains, “Anti-diet does not mean anti-health. It’s pro-health.” It’s about focusing on nourishing your body and finding joy in movement, rather than obsessing over numbers on a scale or restrictive eating patterns.

One of the biggest pitfalls people face when trying to leave the diet mindset behind is the language they use around food. Debbie emphasizes the importance of eliminating labels like “good” or “bad” when it comes to food. “All food has nutritional value,” she says. “Your body knows what to do with it.” By reframing our thoughts and language around food, we can begin to develop a healthier relationship with eating and nourishing our bodies.

The Power of Community and Support

Recovering from an eating disorder and embracing an anti-diet mindset can be challenging, but Debbie emphasizes the importance of finding a supportive community. Through her Facebook page, “Diets Don’t Work,” Debbie curates a collection of posts and resources that promote body positivity, intuitive eating, and eating disorder awareness. The page has grown into a thriving community of over 4,500 members who share their experiences, ask questions, and support one another on their journeys to recovery.

Debbie also highlights the importance of cleaning up our social media feeds and surrounding ourselves with accounts that promote body positivity and reject diet culture. By curating our online spaces, we can create a more positive and supportive environment that aligns with our values and goals.

The Benefits of Ditching the Diet Mindset

So, what are the benefits of embracing an anti-diet mindset and rejecting the harmful messages of diet culture?
Debbie shares three key benefits:

• Freedom: By letting go of restrictive eating patterns and the obsession with weight loss, we can experience a newfound sense of freedom. No longer bound by the numbers on a scale or the rules of a diet, we can eat what we want when we want it, without guilt or shame.
  
• Increased Brain Space: When we’re constantly focused on diets and weight loss, our minds become consumed by numbers and restrictions. By embracing an anti-diet mindset, we free up valuable brain space to focus on more important things, like spending time with loved ones, pursuing hobbies, and engaging in activities that bring us joy.
  
• Improved Self-Esteem: Diet culture often leads to a negative body image and a constant battle with our own self-worth. By rejecting the idea that our bodies need to conform to a certain standard, we can develop a healthier and more positive relationship with ourselves. Respecting our bodies for what they are and what they can do, rather than how they look, can lead to a significant boost in self-esteem and overall well-being.

Looking ahead…

Ditching the diet mindset and embracing an anti-diet approach to health and well-being is a journey that requires commitment and self-compassion. But as Debbie’s story demonstrates, it is possible to find recovery and live a life free from the harmful cycle of dieting. By rejecting diet culture, reframing our thoughts and language around food, and surrounding ourselves with a supportive community, we can begin to embrace a new way of approaching health that focuses on nourishment, self-acceptance, and joy.

As the anti-diet movement continues to gain momentum, it is important that we challenge the harmful messages of diet culture and promote a more inclusive and compassionate approach to health. By sharing our stories, supporting one another, and advocating for change, we can create a world where everyone can embrace their bodies and live their lives to the fullest, free from the constraints of diet culture.

Let’s support Debbie in her mission to spread awareness about eating disorders, promote body positivity, and empower others to embrace an anti-diet mindset. Together, we can create a future where health is not defined by weight, but by the joy, nourishment, and self-acceptance that comes from living a life free from diet culture.

Frequently Asked Questions About Recovery, Anti-Diet Living & Letting Go of Diet Culture

1. Is recovery from an eating disorder possible at any age?

Yes. As Debbie shares in this episode, she found recovery at 63 years old—after decades of struggle and multiple treatment centers. Recovery is not limited by age. It’s never too late to heal your relationship with food, your body, or yourself.

2. What does it mean to be “anti-diet”?

Being anti-diet means rejecting restrictive eating, body shame, and weight-focused health messages. It’s not anti-health—it’s pro-health, pro-body autonomy, and pro-informed choice. It also means refusing to moralize food or tie your worth to your size.

3. Isn’t weight loss still a valid health goal?

Weight loss is a personal choice, but it shouldn’t be the default measure of health. Anti-diet living focuses on behaviors (like movement, nourishment, sleep, and mental health) rather than manipulating weight, which is largely out of our control. Debbie emphasizes informed choice—and understanding that weight loss diets statistically fail long term.

4. What are the biggest mindset shifts when leaving diet culture?

According to Debbie:

• Ditch the scale and weight tracking apps
• Stop labeling food as good or bad
• Unfollow diet and weight-loss content on social media
• Buy clothes for your today body
• Find joyful movement—not punishment disguised as fitness

5. How do I explain my anti-diet stance to others without feeling awkward?

It’s okay to set boundaries. A simple, “I’m not discussing diets or body size anymore—let’s talk about something else,” is enough. Debbie reminds us that it’s not your job to justify your healing. It’s your right to protect it.

6. What’s a good place to start if I’m just beginning to unlearn diet culture?

A great place to start is by educating yourself with trusted anti-diet resources. We recommend exploring the Top 12 Anti-Diet Book Club Picks—a curated list to help you understand the science, the history, and the liberation of leaving diet culture behind.

7. Is Debbie a therapist or licensed professional?

No. Debbie is a recovered peer, advocate, and anti-diet community leader. Her work is not a substitute for medical or mental health treatment, but her lived experience and curated resources offer powerful peer support. If you need clinical help, she may be able to point you toward qualified professionals who align with anti-diet values.

Episode Transcript

I just want people to know that recovery is possible. I was 63 years old when I found recovery. I had psychiatrists tell me I was hopeless.

I had therapists say, I can’t treat you anymore because you’re just so determined to fight us on everything. And here I am, I’m trying to help others now because I have found a better way. And it is anti-diet, health and exercise, intuitive eating.

It does work. You just have to let it, and recovery is possible. It happens.

I’m Laurie Mallon, and this is the Results Without Restriction podcast. The show where results have nothing to do with weight and everything to do with setting and reaching health and fitness goals that focus on what we’re achieving and not what we’re losing. We’ll talk about deprogramming from diet culture and get expert advice on reclaiming your relationship with food and movement.

Join me on this journey to get results without restriction. Today, I’m here with Debbie Lusko, who is what I call an anti-diet activist and a superhero. And she’s the host of Diets Don’t Work, which is a large Facebook community that supports and educates people who are looking to ditch the diet mindset and approach health without a harmful focus on weight.

Welcome, Debbie. Thank you. Thanks for having me here.

I’m pretty pumped to talk to you because this is a departure from our normal episodes. Normally, we are talking with coaches, nutritionists, trainers who are in the field helping clients, whereas you are an activist. Do you consider yourself an anti-diet activist? What do you call yourself? Eating disorder awareness and anti-diet, fat liberation activist.

I really wanna promote eating disorder awareness because it, of course, affected me personally, and that’s kinda what I wanna get out there. I’m gonna call you an anti-diet and eating disorder awareness superhero. Okay, this is my passion.

I wanna get the word out, and I go through Instagram and Facebook, and I pull the best of the best and share those posts. I want one place where I can come and see all the various encouragements, anything like that in one place. And that is why I have my page.

But there’s no income for me. It is strictly a labor of love. I say it in my bio.

If I can reach one person, then it’s all worth it. If I can stop one person from running down the track of an eating disorder, then that’s what I’m here for. You curate a lot of valuable posts from other coaches, dieticians, people in the anti-diet and health at every size to share this information with your audience.

You’re having a significant impact without even having a certification or anything like that, but you’re really out there sharing this message about being anti-diet and anti-intentional weight loss and how harmful all this diet culture messaging is and how pervasive it is. I like to get the backstory. So you can tell me how we got to this point where you became the anti-diet superhero that you are today.

Thanks, yes, and I appreciate the name you’re calling me. That’s a fun name to have. That story is that I am a 67-year-old grandmother and I have had an eating disorder since I was probably about eight.

My parents, my dad in particular, was very concerned about what other people saw and he wanted his children to look perfect. And so I was told I was fat and I had to lose weight from a very young age. I can remember being restricted food when I was four years of age.

But that persisted and finally at about 17, I said, fine, you know, fine. You want me thin? I’m gonna be thin. And I did and I lost a lot of weight pretty quickly.

Of course, was hospitalized within six weeks of dropping a lot of weight. And I told my parents that I had a mental disorder. And this is back in the early 1970s that we’re talking about.

And it’s even before Karen Carpenter or any of the names that had eating disorder. This is before that. So they didn’t really know as much in the 70s.

They probably had it in at some kind of DSM book at that point for anorexia, but they didn’t really know what to do with it. So they just told my parents to get me counseling and we did. In fact, I mean, they set me up with the church pastor, said, here help her.

And he did for a little bit and he was very good, but I was determined to make my father proud of me and continue on losing weight, which I did. I was always on a diet from the time from eight years of age till four years ago, I’ve always been on a diet. I was determined to stay that way.

So I’ve been in numerous treatment centers over the years and the most recent one was back in 2017 here in Arizona. I went to Rosewood Eating Disorder Centers, which I can highly recommend. And I don’t promote very many centers, but they’re where I found recovery.

During the course of all the treatment centers, I died a couple times. I remember going to one where I died in the elevator going up to the center and a doctor was with me at the time and he had to do CPR to get me back. And I fought them on it because I said, you should have let me die because I don’t want to be fat.

I don’t want to be fat. You’re going to make me fat. And I was very belligerent with the team at that center and said, no, I’m not eating.

And I tried and they put on some weight on me and I went back home and I immediately turned around and did the same thing all over again. And then in 2017, I got to a point where my job was kind of saying, you can’t go on like this. I was abusing drugs, laxatives, not eating.

My job figured it out and said, you have to get treatment. If you don’t, you don’t have a job. And even then I was still on probation because my job slipped.

I was in the bathroom all the time. I was not eating. I had no comprehension for what I was doing.

As an accountant, you kind of need to know what you’re doing. So I went to Rosewood and I spent almost a year and a half with them in all of their various modalities from inpatient to a residential to PHP to outpatient. And I did all the modalities and I kept saying to them, no, I’m not, no, I’ve put too much weight on.

You cannot make me put on any more weight. And I did, I put on a lot of weight in recovery. I got to a point where they handed me the book Health at Every Size.

And I got through the first chapter and I handed it back to my dietician saying, nope, nope, nope, can’t do this. This is out of the question. There’s no way I want to do this.

I can’t be happy in a fat bond. Proceeded to continue into treatment. And then in 2019, I found Intuitive Eating.

I read the book, was with a dietician now with a different dietician who was promoting it. And I went, okay, I can do this. And we talked about body image and I went back to Health at Every Size and I went, okay.

And by this point I had put on twice what I started out. I mean, I had put on the full amount of my body weight. And so I was very upset with my weight, but in 2019, it was January even, January of 2019.

And all of this stuff on social media was bombarding me, get on this diet, start this gym, start this, start that, the various new year’s resolutions. And I’m like, I’ve got to do something to fight that. I have to figure this out.

Cause I can’t go back to dieting. Cause if I do, I will die. And I had a beautiful granddaughter at that point.

She was four years old and I can’t leave her. I mean, I moved from Pittsburgh to Phoenix because of my eating disorder, but I stayed here because my family was here. And I couldn’t be without my granddaughter.

I thought, nope, I can’t do that. I can’t die. That would just hurt tremendously.

I was very focused on finding reasons why not to go on a diet. And at that point, diet, some work was born. I did it as a selfish venture.

I had to find the reasons why diets don’t work. Why my body was okay, just as it is as a fat body. And I had to find those reasons.

And all of these posts now talking about anti-diet and health at every size and fat activism and eating disorder awareness. I thought it all out and I started reposting them. And by April of 2019, I had my own page with diets don’t work and it has grown ever since.

And I still do the same thing. It is just as much a part of my recovery as it is for everybody else. It keeps me focused on what I’m doing, what I need to think about, and knowing that I can help others is an added benefit.

It keeps me going, but I’m also helping others. Debbie, I’m not gonna lie, that was a little bit emotional. The part about what would save your life right now, because you got to a point where being in a smaller body was worth it to you.

It was life in a fat body or death, and you were making a choice. And then you finally had that, this is something I need to live for. Like this is the thing that I need to focus on.

What I’m doing is not working. It is going to kill me and I cannot keep doing this. So that was kind of like your turning point.

I had to find something to keep me going and the page has definitely kept me going. And I like that because it’s almost like it’s therapeutic. It’s keeping your mind on the right things.

You’re not just helping yourself now, you’re helping others. Right, exactly. And I’m not saying that it’s been easy all along.

The past four years have been full of ups and downs and we had COVID in there and that kind of threw a wrinkle in things. But for the most part, I have stayed on top of it. And I’ve got a wonderful support group.

I’ve got my dieticians who are a blessing to me and we have a support group that I am part of. And if I didn’t have them as well as the page, there probably wouldn’t be a page. I’ve got a therapist now or again, and she’s helping me process some of the things that happened to me as a child that still hold on to me.

It’s been four years of ups and downs, but I’m on top. I’m on top of it now. I can honestly say I’m recovered.

Sure, there’s little glitches that come in every so often, but I am not gonna say I am in recovery because I honestly believe that I have recovered. But God’s grace, I have recovered. Let’s talk real quick about what it means to be anti-diet because let’s be honest, the term anti-diet has become a catchphrase, right? It’s become popularized.

It’s been co-opted by the intentional weight loss brigade, because everybody knows diets don’t work. So we can’t talk about diets, but we still wanna sell the magic of weight loss. It’s gonna solve all your problems and make your life better.

We still wanna make that promise, but without that dirty D word, right? So being anti-diet, what does that mean? Anti-diet means rejecting all the diet culture, rejecting the idea that a diet is going to cure your self-esteem, your body image, your health, any of that kind of stuff. Anti-diet does not mean anti-health. It’s pro-health, as a matter of fact, diet.

And I use that word, but it really encompasses restrictions for the purpose of changing your body, your body size, your body weight. That diet is restricting any kind of food group, any kind of calorie restriction. And even though people say we’re not going to count calories or we’re not gonna track food, we’re gonna change you so that you eat just good food, end quote, there is no such thing.

So it’s rejecting the diet mentality of good foods, bad foods. It’s rejecting the idea that you have to earn your food. It’s rejecting that you can only look a certain way and you have to be this way to be a worthy person.

Everybody’s worthy, no matter what their size, what their color, what their shape, no matter what they are worthy, whether they can move, whether they can’t move, whether they’re disabled or not. It’s all part of that anti-diet. Yeah, I do get approached by health coaches who want to be on the podcast, who are quote, unquote anti-diet.

But when I dig a little further, they’re using weight loss as an outcome, as a metric, but they’re using these Jedi mind tricks to kind of sell you on the same harmful behaviors without the title. So we’re still restricting things. We’re still using the terms good, bad, clean, dirty.

We’re only eating these types of foods. Like we’re still vilifying sugar. We’re still vilifying carbs.

We’re still making it out to be there’s a right way and a wrong way, but we’re not calling it that. So I always have to dig and I have to say, okay, you’re saying you’re anti-diet, but are you actually still peddling weight loss, which is really the harmful silent partner in all of this? Yes, absolutely. And that is the biggest problem with so many of the diet programs that are out there.

New weight watchers and Jenny Craig, which has coming back again. And they all want to try and tell you, you can eat whatever you want as long as it stays within this point value or you can eat whatever you want as long as you count it as part of your daily intake. They’re still tracking everything that you eat.

Doesn’t matter. They have to get you to reduced calories that you’re taking in if they’re going to promise weight loss. And the terrible thing about it is, no matter how many calories you reduce, you are harming your body.

You are setting your body up for organ failure, for dizziness. There is a whole list of things that happens when you start restricting calories. No matter what the reason is, no matter how you go about intentionally losing weight, it’s not going to stay that way.

95 to 98% fail. No matter whatever you want to call it, lifestyle change won’t work. That is absolutely true.

Statistically, we have studies. We have so much science behind the inefficacy of intentional weight loss through these needs. The sad things to me are that, one, coaches and trainers are still being taught to use this as a metric, to use this as a selling point, to use this in marketing, to use this as a basis for health.

To help their clients get healthy, it has to be around reducing their body size, which is, it’s unfortunate. Medical personnel. Yes, exactly.

Doctors, they’re still all using BMI, which is bullshit. They’re still using all of this kind of weight-related information, which does not have any relevance to behaviors or actual health outcomes like your A1C, your blood pressure, your VO2 max. Like any of these actual indicators of health have very, very little to do with the size of your body.

For me personally, as a former health coach and personal trainer, I went through these trainings and they would teach you, here’s how many calories they should be eating. Here’s what their healthy, quote unquote, gonna use your quotes, the healthy body weight. And it’s like, this is so gross.

Let’s stop teaching this to the people who are then, as experts, pushing this information on the general public. I love that there are people like us who are just like, no, we’re not doing this. And there’s signs to back us up.

It’s not like we’re just making this up because we feel good about it. We just wanna be fat, leave us alone. We’re gonna make up some studies like this, right.

That’s what people think. They just want us to be lazy. I’m all for making sure that people have all the proper information as to why diets don’t work or why lifestyle changes don’t work.

Whatever you wanna call it, any kind of restriction. Make an informed choice. Right, and I will point out that, first and foremost, everyone has body autonomy.

So whatever you choose to do with your body is your business, right. You absolutely can make that choice for yourself, but make an informed choice. Make sure you’re actually getting factual information about the choices that you do make.

Right, that’s what I want people to know is I wanna give you the information and make it an informed choice. When you see people who are kind of new to the anti-diet space, they’ve had that lifetime of chronic restriction or weight obsession, things like that. They’re like, I’m done with this.

I want to move into intuitive eating or health at every size, anti-diet movement, but something’s tripping me up. What are the pitfalls that people tend to fall into when they are leaving the diet mindset and finding a new way to do things? I think one of the big things is calling food bad or dirty or unhealthy or treats or junk food. All food has nutritional value no matter what it is.

And your body knows what to do with it. So one of the biggest thing is I want them to eliminate any classification of food, whether bad, whether good, whether dirty, whether clean, whatever you wanna call it, it’s just food. Some foods have more nutritional value than others do, but it doesn’t make them any better than something else.

They demonize sugar, they demonize carbs, they demonize fast food, pizza, hamburgers, whatever it is, it’s all just food, period. You’re gonna get energy from whatever you eat and that’s what it turns into, it turns into glucose. One of the biggest mistakes is just calling it bad and I shouldn’t be eating this, it’s naughty.

I’m not being a good person if I eat this and I hear it on radio, I hear it at church, I hear it in the grocery store, in the hairdressers. I was a bad girl, I ate ice cream for dinner last night. No, it doesn’t make you bad.

Your worth is not determined on what you eat. That is the number one thing, is get rid of the labels on food. Two, clean up your social media.

Find the anti-diet accounts, get rid of any of the weight loss, keto, get rid of those accounts. Follow me, I have a ton of people that you can follow every single day. You can find somebody new on my stage.

Clean up your social media. The next time would be get rid of the clothes that don’t fit. Find the clothes that are comfortable.

I want you to feel nice in whatever you’re wearing. Get rid of that idea that thin is beautiful and fat is ugly and get clothes that fit. Get clothes that fit.

Oh, and exercise. Find the joyful movement. Find something you’d like to do.

If it’s a chore, don’t do it. If you hate running, don’t do it. Find something else.

Go dance, go play tennis, go play anything that you like to do. I have rheumatoid arthritis that has developed over the years here. And I used to be a runner.

I used to run marathons and used to run all the time. I can no longer do that. I loved running.

I loved running. I still wish I could go running, but I can’t. I have found swimming.

I have a pool in my backyard. I go swimming every day. And that is my movement.

That is my exercise. And it satisfies the movement in me. And I still can do it.

Or dancing or chasing down your kids or running around the house, cleaning and laundry and all that. Those are all movements. You’re getting benefit from any of that kind of stuff.

I love that you pointed these out because a lot of the things that kind of keep people stuck when they’re trying to move out of that diet mindset, there are things that they don’t realize that they’ve incorporated into their thoughts and patterns that kind of keep them stuck. So can I recap real quick? So you said one, examine their language that you’re using around food, get rid of the vilifying certain foods, the clean eating, dirty, whatever. Food is food.

Start looking at all food as energy. And yes, some foods have different nutritional values. Some have more fiber.

Some have this, but it’s quantified. It’s not qualified, right? There’s nutrition and everything. Eat what you enjoy and lose the language that kind of keeps you in that diet mindset.

So the second thing you said was get rid of the social media accounts that you’re following that keep you stuck in that. Obsessing about body size and what you’re eating and anything with a before and after picture, gone. I’m showing you my six pack, that kind of vibe, gone.

And I love your feed so much because I do find great accounts follow from it. And that’s kind of how I found you. And I was like, wow, this is like a goldmine of really great accounts to connect with.

I can say now my feed is just full of anti-diet, all that every size, body positive, larger bodies being active and just loving life. And I’m just, I’m thrilled. It’s made a huge difference in my social media experience.

The third thing you said was clean out the closet and get rid of the clothes that you’re hanging on to, your skinny jeans. Right. I used to have a pair of jeans I called my judgment jeans.

And my dietician of course went, no, you need to get rid of them because I would put them on to determine whether or not I’ve put on any weight or have I lost weight. They were judgment jeans, got rid of them, had to get rid of them. And buy clothes for your today body.

And find things that you feel good in as you are right now because confidence and positive self-image has nothing to actually do with your physical body. It’s all up here. And if you’re constantly putting on clothes that used to fit, but don’t, like that’s just gonna keep you stuck in that mentality.

So I love that you mentioned that. And then the other thing you said, having that moral kind of like connection with the food, like food is good or bad. It’s neither.

And you’re neither good or bad for eating it. If you eat a donut, you’re not bad. If you eat a donut and then you roll a bank, yes, you’re bad.

Yes, yes. The donut alone is not what does it. So we could be here all day talking about the benefits of ditching the diet culture and moving into a new head space of loving your body as it is being respectful of it and caring for it and finding ways to feed it and move it that you enjoy.

So what would you say are like the top three benefits of ditching diet culture? You’re going to find that you actually have freedom, which is food. You can eat what you want, when you want it. You’re no longer focused on the numbers of the food or exercise.

And here you are thinking about numbers all the time. And all of a sudden, they’re gone. I can go out to dinner with people.

I can go out to dinner with friends. I don’t have to worry about whether or not they’ve got something I can eat or not eat or is this going to fit into my plan today? You’re not thinking about numbers. You’ve got more brain space.

I have more brain space to go play with my granddaughter. And that may sound very elusive, but you really will find you’ve got more things that you can think about. You have more time.

I have more friends, more availability for friends, and I can talk to them without worrying about saying something wrong as far as diets are concerned, more self-esteem. You’re not fighting with your body anymore, respecting your body for what it does and how it is. That act of constantly changing your body definitely destroys self-esteem because it never does what you think it should do.

And when you give that up, you can be the person that you’re meant to be and you don’t have to fight with it anymore. You give up the fight. I’m not saying give up the fight for health.

I’m saying give up the fight for making it a shape that you think is acceptable. So freedom. Essentially, what I’m hearing is you get a lot of freedom in your head, in your calendar, and the way you feel about your body is just you’re not confined anymore to routines or thought patterns or restaurants or activities, how you feel about your body because you’re told to feel that way about your body.

Right, right. That’s very freeing. It was amazing to me when I went through this and pretty, it was very gradual, but when you realize how much time you used to waste trying to control something that inevitably was never gonna change, but just obsessing about how much, when, where.

I get a little angry when I think about how much time I did waste on all that, but we’re here now. So, but yes, it’s very freeing to finally let all of that go. So Debbie, you have a Facebook page, Diets Don’t Work, and you have a group.

You have a private group that people can join. Is a private group. You have to get to it by going to the Diets Don’t Work page.

You can get to it through there. You can always message me through the page and I will get you into the group. It is a private group where people post questions.

The group has almost 4,500 members in it right now. So you get quite an assortment of answers. The group is moderated heavily.

So you’re not gonna get a diet answer. You’re not gonna get, oh well, just tell them to quit eating sugar. That won’t happen in the group, I guarantee you.

It is a anti-diet, non-intentional weight loss group. I’ll put the link in the show notes and if anybody wants to join. Just to reiterate though, you’re not a therapist.

You’re not a counselor. You’re not a certified coach or anything like that. You’re not giving medical advice.

You’re not, this is more of a peer support group for other people who have been in this space. And when you come in to ask questions or get support, keep that in mind that if you do need a referral for a therapist or something like that, Debbie probably has resources to share, but just keep in mind this is a peer group and there will be no sneaky like weight loss answer, diet talk that sneaks in so that this is a safe place to talk about things in the anti-diet world. Exactly.

Perfect. And you have a website. Website, diets-don’t-work.net. I will put a link to your website in the show notes as well and they can visit you there.

They can sign up for your newsletter. I’m so thankful for you, Debbie, because I know that it’s hard. It’s hard to live with this every day and you are recovered, but it’s still something you’re doing every day to stay there.

It’s not like a switch was flipped and now I don’t have to work on this anymore enough to think about it after care. You’re in this every day reminding yourself, these are the messages I need to hear. These are the people I need to be surrounded by.

These are the things I need to continue to reinforce. That’s right. Absolutely.

And that’s exactly why I do what I do. Please just know that you’re helping so many people every day and that the work that you do is very, very important and it’s so impactful. I appreciate that.

I really do. Debbie, let’s wrap up. What I like to do at the end of every episode is have my guests give me their top three tips for whatever their area of expertise is.

Yours is recovering from eating disorder and ditching the diet mindset. Can you give us your top three tips for doing that? One, get rid of the scale. Two, change your language around food, around your body.

Three, get rid of all your apps that monitor your weight, monitor your food, monitor exercise. Get rid of them. You’re gonna do it with joyful movements.

You’re gonna do it with intuitive eating. You’re gonna do it with better mindset. One thing that we did not even touch on and then maybe this would be a second episode is, because you actually did mention a little bit about how people wanna talk about your diet and people love to talk about why.

Why is this interesting? I don’t know. But what they eat, what they, you know, how they’re, what they’re doing to their body. But finding friends who share this approach to health and letting people in your life know, listen, this isn’t a conversation topic I engage in anymore.

Depending on how comfortable you are with being straightforward about you’re not discussing diets anymore. You’re not talking about body size. We’re not talking about weight loss.

Making sure that the people around you know, listen, I’m, this is no longer an important thing to me. It’s actually very harmful. I’d like to talk about something else.

And maybe just having in your back pocket, like topic changers or like ways that you can say, listen, you know what? I don’t really wanna talk about that. Can we talk about something else?